Past, present and future

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Past, present and future

Post by Scubba on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:18 am

As i told to few ppl in clan already, it s time to do some major changes in clan, in the party setups.

In the past, we made clan from zero again, rising rapidly, from a half party we made a clan. Parties and individuals joined, we started to be a factor clan.
We got the royals and knights up, all the time the clan was full like 120%
I think i can state we used to be the best solo clan, even better than BMF, Sentinels, better than the entire NoLife ally.
We locked down a fort for us, later we got Fortress of the Dead CH (defeating some LL), also we became the lord of Schuttgart after an epic and enjoyable siege with 850/130 siegestats, also defended both.

In the present, we lost something. Don t know if it is the motivation, or just ppl got bored, or too many exams / job / life. But
from the leading position, we are falling and failing.
My basic idea was to declare war to the other rising clans (strawhats, nolife ally, infectedunits, disturbed, some smaller clans with fort/ch) and with the wars ppl/parties would go together and try to make HB quest, more mass raids, and basically just to get used to each others and act like a clan.
Maybe my mistake, but this plan was a huge failure... afaik we have only 2 parties with HB quest ready, many of the 82+ ppl haven t been to HB yet.
Awhile, other clans started to farm Tiat before us, they have vespers, much more dyna sets, lot of SA. Speaking about strawhats, disturbed, teamzone mostly.
True, we killed Tiat. True, we managed to get some crystals from Hellmann and other raids. But it s far, far away from the acceptable level.
Many ppl from the clan are "not-so-active". by this, i mean ppl who log like 1-2h every 2nd day, they scream for pt/cp, then they just leave, cuz there is no action. It can not be maintained.

In the end, plans about the future. Maybe u noticed, we stopped all the major wars. This is a temporary state only, i want to declare them again as soon as possible.
Here is the main reason why i write this wall of text: we have to transfer from a friendly funclan to a serious one, which is able to compete with the "smaller" clans (e.g.: any clan which is strong enough to farm hb/tiat and not in ll/ooc)
To get back our old status, to be able to participate on bigger events, we have to change the clan setup. Like i was spamming before, we need the CPs running for HB, we need to have ACTIVE ppl. We want to farm Lilith, we want to farm AQ. In the next month, we will show up for Baium and try to get in.

Similar to other clans, we will run an "alt" clan for ppl who can t nolife, they will have slightly different logo and clan name, but they should try to be online as much as they can, and read forums as well. Getting transferred into the main clan / alt clan doesn t change so much, but we give the chance to the nolifers to improve, and normal ppl can farm without wars, without getting interrupted. They may (must) join clan events anyway.
Considering the activity, gear, lvl, and the time spent in clan, i will post a list here about ppl who should be transferred, also i will try to speak with all of them. I'm monitoring the online ppl for few days, so probably after siege i can give final list and we do the transfer.

From March, only those ppl may stay in main clan, who have:
lv 80+ on main, and some subs also
S weap 150 at least, S sets. Healers may be different, also active SD SWM will have some lower requirements.
Made academy char(s), and have AQ char ready, or will have ready soon.
Activity: 6h+ daily, in certain cases it may be changed, like exam on next day, getting married, etc.

This was not an easy decision guys, and i m really sorry about ppl who will be transferred, but it s a must..
Volunteers can move to the alt clan by their free will. For some ppl it s not allowed.
About taking ppl/parties to the main clan in the future, i will discuss with CP leaders. Also, try to find a CP, either from main or alt clan.

Wall of text is over. LF someone to lead alt clan, or i will just make alt char there.

Feedback requested, if u have any criticism, i m open for suggestions.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Dracus on Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:56 am

Imo its goood idea to keep in main clan only full CPs,with good eq and good lvl, when U gonna transfer ppl w/o cps, with low activity to second clan we will have slots in main clan to inv full cps(some of good CPs already w8 for invitation).About Epics: We can try to kill frintezza already its just about to have enough ppl online when it spawn, and luck to click first when its spawned:D(heard that from some LL friend).

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by aberdeen on Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:03 am

Can I stay in the clan with the wars pls Very Happy ... Anyway good idea, time to get sirius!

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:15 am

It's about damn time this server will be 3-sided again, and give players the chance that didnt have the connection to enter any of the big clan to get into the "game", the Epics, the Sieges, the Massive CvC , the Bitches and the Fame Very Happy

No pain no gain, it's way worse to stay at peace and watch them getting stronger while we wait than to fight 'em back and give it a shot.

We gonna need active CPs with the right equipment, we gonna need to use Ventrilo as a clan and damn right we need good communication between the CPs and the leader.

+9999 from me for the Decision. it's what each Good clan has done since the beggining of the server, kill the cancer before it spreads more Twisted Evil

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Snorlax on Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:17 am

Good decision, but reconsider who you want to transfer, cause, according to your requirements list, you would have to transfer 75% of clanmembers.
Also you should talk with CP leaders that have posted on our forum and are waiting for inv (so they will not change their minds).

Inviting huge amount of new people (what will surely happen) may cause bad relations between some clan members (im not talking about any examples, but you know, new ppl can be sux/unactive/selfish/aggresive/homo or any other - sometimes only application looks cool).
I think you should transfer few people in the first week of march and invite 1 or 2 new CPs and try them out, then transfer more people, invite more CPs and try them out, etc etc so we can slowly become high-grade clan consisted of CPs with same levels, equipment, goals and with no tension between CPs, which were 'tested'.
Gl, hope its gonna work.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by t0mzz on Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:22 am

At least Razz. Well my sugestion would be to kick whole ppl from clan and inv cp's after 24h to main and others to alt. Those who will have no idea what is heppening or those one who will be angry or someitng wont deserve to be in clan.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Sardax on Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:52 am

For me it's great idea but i prefer t0mzz style, dismiss all and inv only cp which keeps playing cause for now i see my, sand and irectus pt(its max 35 ppl) but in clan we can see 133 people so i think 90 can go to alt clan and there try to make more CP which can help us with epic/siege/bla bla meaby i am wrong but it's my opinion
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Re: Past, present and future

Post by hRnec on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:38 pm

Seriously big +1 to you post.

Pretty nice idea, we can just improve this clan in this way...
I hope people who should be transfered wont emoquit or something, even with those ppl we can make new CPs.I hope itll just force a little clannies to get CP and farm together because sometimes ive got a feeling that ppl act like individuals and dont even care about others here

I look forward to new changes here.
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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Aytraksus on Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:58 pm

Good call.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by MadGhost on Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:22 pm

well i think we have to change something in clan y cuz if we wanna fight the top clans we need better gear/activity but thats also hard for ppl to make alone. Imo we should have some trust guys to be party leader and just recluit what cps need, making some kind of try period. In this new clan system is imposible to controle all the ppl so the best way is do it with constant pts, so each party leader will care about his ppl, his active and if they need some new recluit. I think thats the way all the top clans do it. Have lot of ppl in clan asking for pt or getting angry cuz they dont have pt low the activity and the clan efficiency

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Irectus on Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:42 pm

Totaly agreed with the spirit of new changes. In this way we can help very active players to improve their parties and make brilliant job and same time we can have 2nd clan in ally to support us and also have there our good clan mates who cannot be active for their personal reasons. Its very important 2nd clan not be just an alt clan but with the correct actions to become a good force to help Vae Victis farm epics , conquer castles, destroy our enemies.


ps1 I found Tomzz suggestions too early to do because as sardax said we have 3-4 Cp's in clan active atm...so this action will ruin the clan (stay in clan only Cp i mean)
ps2 About leader of 2nd clan must be an active guy who doesnt have any Cp atm and he will be organiser

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Ufoc on Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:14 pm

agree - even if ill be transfered to alt. Some ppl can play lots some cant.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by natsnotch on Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:55 pm

im agree with all of that and with irectus word i think the best is to reorganize party in the second clan. i think with all activ playeur we got without any party we can make something good just need some organisation and we need more activ people on forum btw !

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Zortrax on Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:58 am

+1 for changes, at least we will have slots for other CP's in main clan:) Very Happy

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by hRnec on Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:02 am

Irectus wrote: Totaly agreed with the spirit of new changes. In this way we can help very active players to improve their parties and make brilliant job and same time we can have 2nd clan in ally to support us and also have there our good clan mates who cannot be active for their personal reasons. Its very important 2nd clan not be just an alt clan but with the correct actions to become a good force to help Vae Victis farm epics , conquer castles, destroy our enemies.

Says pretty well...Even if those people will be in "alt" clan, they can find there fun and i believe that many people there will find a CP finally

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:17 am

Yea, im in minor side that doesnt like that decision. Nowadays i see progress in clan with going from random recruited to something better than it: since 2-3 weeks theres lot of inadequate peoples quited, i see much more usefull information in chat, not some dramma about failed pvp, that was classic thing in pr0 clans. I also smoothly see peoples that made gear/levels not only by simply exchanging life into adena.
Const partying is good idea and have good sides like easyer organizing, spliting initiative. Othervice when you playing with nolifers you getting more crap that i called "lineage victim syndrome", things goes harder if persons can only nolife and nolife moar. Ill probably abuse someone by words that i sayed, but i dont wanna abuse everyone Smile coz i see also examples when peoples playing 8h per day in party with family, friends and comfort emotional atmosphere, that way it can be called more like "having hobby" not like "living in the Lineage world". Yea, i also dont know conts groups in clan so close, so i havent any minds about em.
I see the way of clan developing in: accepting more wars that will motivate some peoples to play more, motivate others to stay in team, and motivate third to go pr0 clans where they can "pwn". By accepting more wars i dont mean war OOC and LL, i personally dont care, but peoples who farm HB have other opinion, and they are right.
Also increase rotation of players in clan, mostly when you see some real stupid actions from em, yea that way is hard and have lot of chances to mistake.
Motivating for initiativity like spammin, announcing most important things 10 times per day like: "Make AQ chars, make RB checkers". Im lazy like hell, but when you feel group work it motivate even me to make AQ char that probably never will be used. Also graduate peoples that do something for clan from castle stuff, but seems like that thing is already goes on.
About events like Tezza - i dont know current situation, but i think im right that theres problems in numbers, so only thing that i can offer is making some date where peoples should mobilize and try it atleast every 3rd respawn. Theres bigger problems with fact that after 1st fail some peoples will quit, some will be demotivated, coz theres percent of players that dont like to pvp, they like to pwn.
All my points is not even decisions, its more like cause to thought. Recruto pr0s is much easyer way and maybe more effective, and yea - im not teh pr0.


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Re: Past, present and future

Post by iSpoon on Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:05 am

From my point of view, whole idea of Constant Parties destroyed alot of fun gameplay in Lineage. By this I mean, that it divided the community into two categories of players, those who can play hardcore style and those who can't. For CP to be good, u must have all nine players fall into first category or otherwise it will fail badly at HB level. I experienced this couple of times already, when just 1-3 ppl from CP stopped playing and you couldn't keep up with what u did, leading whole party to frustration followed by more emoquits. In C4 clan-style, this was not an issue, since u just needed 9 logged in ppl to make fully supported parties, so ppl just switched sub's and party was ready. Items also were not an issue, since everything went to CWH and was distributed by clan leader. Players of both categories could play together and clan was functioning and emoquits had only a little impact on whole.

Switching to constant-party style clan has of course advantages, but what do you offer that other clans dont ? I guess its only required playtime difference and nothing more. So why would you think any good CP will choose VV instead of other clans ?

What would I suggest ? Make a mixed-style clan. Make constant parties have 15-20ppl, mixture of both nolife and casual players, that would make 5xCP in clan with high probabilty of having full CP online without boxes during evenings/events that knows how to cooperate. Only CP leader would be required to play much more than others and she/he would decide about whole party items progress ( in other words, have quest on HB to pickup atods and decides who get next dyna/vespers/etc ). What if more than 9ppl from CP log in ? Consider is as a free time to do sub's or whatever.

My 2 cents.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Scubba on Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:45 am

iSpoon wrote: quote ...
Spoon

just to point out the current situation:
the recruitment to clan is closed atm
still, i get tons of applies every day, some of them are really good

now, there are like 2-3 good CPs are waiting for slots (by good i mean dyna sets, weaps with SA)
and like 5 more which are on average lvl (not all sets are on full attri, weaps without SA)

besides, a lot of individuals, with decent gear and activity


as a conclusion, we HAVE the needed ppl already, we don t have to offer anything more to ppl to come
VV is not a bad clan, but still may improve a lot
the key to success is we have experienced ppl, the 1st 50-80 ppl who invited are playing for years, had been in top clans
also, we don t massrecruit randoms, this is why some clans failed on this server (triada ally: 400 massrecruited randoms + not-so-talented leader = max 5 parties on siege who got steamrolled + no wars


with all these changes we give a chance to the ppl who want to play seriously (call them nolifers, geeks, l2addicts), so they can have a strong clan
the rest, who prefer the RPG way, who loves to chit-chat, more Pve than pvp, will be transferred to alt clan
they will have the chat opportunity in allychat, also they can participate on events, or even if they don t like us/me they leave us


1 more thing: i always accept positive/negative critics about the clan or about me, so don t keep it for yourself only
prolly i won t care, but there is a chance always

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by iSpoon on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:29 am

My point is only, that there are a lot of ppl that are between playing-alot and playing-casually that would like to play some serious pvp, and currently there is no clan on RPG that can offer for them anything.
Every clan wants only full-active CP ( 9 ppl ), which cannot be formed from ppl I mentioned above. I tried running such party since april 2010 on rpg x5 and x15 till now, and it just does not work after you reached certain advancement in game. End-game requires non-boxed party and its just too hard to fill slots with clanmates/randoms for evening when some class is offline.

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Scubba on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:42 am

exactly that s why we will use the double-clan system
when a Cp is missing any class, they have an increased "pool" to pick someone, an alt clan
they just yell on allychat "lf dd for hb" and if there is someone at that time, he/she will go
also, if the missing guy form the CP goes inactive, that one will have the chance to be the substitute DD, or become a permanent cp member

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by iSpoon on Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:50 am

There is only one big '-' from being just replacement.
You do not progress from it in any way [ besides exp ]. CP grinds items for itself only. Thats why its so hard to fill in missing class.
For example what is the point to to Tiat for someone without CP, u just waste time and exp there [ except few first runs where u still enjoy 'new' style of PvE instance ].

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by e4eTerniTy on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:21 am

totally agree with ispoon. that's why i personaly (not having a cp..because i never find a cp that can play my hours) chose to play constant duo with a friend (mm) + boxed bd.

so what i offer is:
-ee 82 first to go at pvp
-help members if they need for example hs quest or something
-also help at tiat or any other raid/epic when i am online

what clan offers:
-pvp
-ch
-clan skills
-comunity

my point is as spoon said.... knowing that i will recieve no benefit from being just a backup makes me refuse a hb pt from a cp. not farming hb on random gets you nowhere... cps farm on fk on 1 member so no atods at all=> no benefits whatsoever...
Also that alt clan won't have neither CH, nor clan skills or wars........

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by t0mzz on Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:22 am

damm u write too much well we go with cps as scubba said and we can make 2nd clan not even ALT normal 2nd clan just w/o cps or with few cps and lvl that clan

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Scubba on Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:28 am

seems u don t read other topics..
alt clan will have Rune ch
also u can get any fort if u want, alt clan will be free to deal the minor stuff

about the benefits
if u are not able to find a cp, how do u want to farm dyna?
even the smaller clans getting S80/84 stuff, how do u want wars when u are halfhit with your A set?
do u find it funny when u get rolled by ppl who were carpet before?

what i want from clan members: ppl should work on/have S80, play their class as it should be, and be active
clan can t use ppl who are just hanging around, shouting in chat lfp 3 times and then go off cuz the CPs are farming and they don t need individuals

yes, there are few things that clan offers to ppl, also there are that the clan requires from ppl

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:20 am

Ok, questions about alt clan.

1) How masskills will work in pvp? For example: rush impact in mass pvp will affect main clan:
- In any case.
- Wont affect allymembers.
- Wont affect anyone whos in CC.

2) What about wars: it will be pve/clan for ressers, or its possible to dublicate VV warlist, what potential clanmembers think? Is it possible to get rights to declare wars, especially for me?

3) CH just bidded or we already got it?


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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Scubba on Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:25 am

2d wrote:Ok, questions about alt clan.

1) How masskills will work in pvp? For example: rush impact in mass pvp will affect main clan:
- In any case.
- Wont affect allymembers.
- Wont affect anyone whos in CC.

should not affect ally members

2) What about wars: it will be pve/clan for ressers, or its possible to dublicate VV warlist, what potential clanmembers think? Is it possible to get rights to declare wars, especially for me?

at start there will be no wars, as soon as alt can live with wars, they will have
i will keep the war priv for the leader only


3) CH just bidded or we already got it?

bid done, i was the first, so we should get it


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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:56 am

2) What about wars: it will be pve/clan for ressers, or its possible to dublicate VV warlist, what potential clanmembers think? Is it possible to get rights to declare wars, especially for me?

at start there will be no wars, as soon as alt can live with wars, they will have
i will keep the war priv for the leader only

Any info about what altmembers thinking about wars? Is it possible to make puplic poll only for members of new clan when we will regroup? Need tag, but quite lazy to search for new clan.


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Re: Past, present and future

Post by Scubba on Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:53 am

guys, i don t want to establish dictatorship here
it s always free to make poll, to give suggestions, critics, ideas
we have much "lighter", much more member-friendly rules than other good clans, keep it in mind

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Re: Past, present and future

Post by MaLijaa (XerXis) on Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:26 pm

Scubba wrote:guys, i don t want to establish dictatorship here
it s always free to make poll, to give suggestions, critics, ideas
we have much "lighter", much more member-friendly rules than other good clans, keep it in mind

+1
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